#14271: "Can we confirm readiness to play when table (in Arena Mode) is populated?"
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Detailed description
• Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Which part of the rules was not followed by the BGA adaptation
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• What was the game action you wanted to do?
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• What did you try to do to trigger this game action?
• What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• At which step of the game did the problem occur (what was the current game instruction)?
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Is this text available in the translation system? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?
• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
• Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.
Arena Mode has you waiting for enough players for the game -- Which standard does also. However, once table is filled, game is expected to begin WITHOUT player confirmation. Standard requires players to confirm readiness to play. Result of Arena game is that if you wait long enough, people do other things and get distracted. If table fills before player returns to game, player can be 'timed out' and a 'quit' is registered. When you've been waiting for 15 minutes, start looking at another website and just plain forget you were waiting, registering a quit because you just forgot you were waiting on the table is quite painful. Especially when multiple quits too close together are so detrimental.• Which browser are you using?
Google Chrome v79
Report history
It's totally weird that you gain and lose Arena points if a game hasn't started. I think those situations should only influence Karma points, not Arena points.
I think it would be best if you had to accept Arena games the same way as regular games. Or, if a player doesn't take their first turn within 30 seconds, the game ends with no penalty. After that, the regular game clock rules apply.
Now, it is also not normally a problem to make a move on a "Turn Based" game and to go back to the start page, but in this instance, the person whom I was playing was online, and we began to play the game in real time. The next problem that occurred is that there is no prompt that an automatic "Real Time" game, whether "Arena Mode" or not, has started when you are currently playing another "Turn Based" game. If it is a "Simple Mode" game, then the game just won't start. However, if it is an "Arena Mode" game, it starts automatically, you are removed from the game, and receive penalties for abandoning the game.
I am including a screenshot of the notice that I received of my loss in Battle Sheep as soon as I finished my game of Nine Men's Morris.
imgur.com/a/rlUF4xm
There was no way for me to know that the game began, until I had already lost.
One of the primary goals of "Arena Mode" play is to foster an environment where people play games more freely. I assume that is the reason that players are not allowed to leave "Arena Mode" games. To prevent players from being able to screen their opponents.
There is, however, an alternative. If the names of players were not displayed until the game actually begins, then players would not be able to screen their opponents. This would allow the standard "Real-Time" game features to be implemented in "Arena Mode."
Currently for "Real-Time" games, if a player does not start the game, there is no penalty, because the game does not start. The same could be done in "Arena Mode." If a player does not choose to start their game within a short time period, they could be replaced with the next available player. If there are no other available players, then the table could just wait for the player to return.
Now, the other players also should not be penalized, if this turns out to be an extended period of time, so all players should be prompted to start the game again, if it takes more than a minute for the game to begin.
That is how I feel the problem should be resolved, but in the mean time, if you allow a player to go to a "Turn Based" game from the "Play Now" page with pending "Real Time" games, you would either prompt to cancel the games, or open the "Turn Based" game in a new tab.
FYI:
There is a bug suggestion to bring back the ability to start games on main page for the game. I don't believe this should be done, until this bug is resolved.
boardgamearena.com/bug?id=16272
There is also a bug report that suggest not penalizing players who do not start a game. Fixing this bug could resolve this issue.
boardgamearena.com/bug?id=14271
There is another bug that suggest anonymous play throughout the entire game.
boardgamearena.com/bug?id=14241
This happened to me yesterday in Solo. There's even a built-in ready check in the game (where you just see your cards but can't play them yet, you need to click a "Let's start" button first), which I obviously didn't confirm, so no move was played whatsoever. And yet, I'm still considered to have "left" the game, even though it never really started: boardgamearena.com/table?table=103802249
Very frustrating since I never leave games (this is my first penalty), so +1 for this suggestion.
Besides these reports, I've also seen other players time out in exactly the same way when put into a game against me; I now assume they also haven't been notified too, so lately I've been using "agree to abandon" instead of "skip this player" so they don't get a karma penalty. When it can be 5-15 minutes to wait for a game to start, I don't want to stare at the screen waiting and I don't expect others too, I expect the "game start" audio notification.
I'd suggest that if a player was waiting for five minutes before the game was started, then timing out should be treated no karma penalty (like collective abandon) rather than karma penalty (like quit/timeout).
If that is why the game starts automatically, this could use a different screen that just shows you which game is starting , not who your opponents would be.
After waiting for 15-20 min I usually switch to a second browser tab, to read some websites or chat on discord.
The tittle tab stays on "Waiting for 2 players" and I keep an eye on it.. get no notificaiton for a while and when I switch back to current tab, it looks like page stopped updating because I was inactive for X time.. and because of it, I did not get notification, so I lose the points.
You wait, and wait, and wait to be matched with an opponent. So you start doing other things on your computer. THEN you finally get matched, but even though you have your volume on, you get NO CHIME that the game has started. Then you lose, lose points, get penalized, then get the (considering the circumstances) condescending message that you lose karma because you have ruined someone else's game time.
This is ALL because there is a bug on the site that does not audially notify you the game has started. Why this works on some occasions and not others is very strange.
I know, you can't ask your opponent to do it when you're the missing one, but still, I already saved several of my opponents (and have been saved once or twice, I believe) using this, so think of it !
Personally, I rarely use arena because of this kind of quirks (this, the annoying after-game animations, etc), but really wonder why confirmation has been removed there.
I understand they tried to prevent us from picking our opponents, but... just hide their identity when game starts then, right ?
Unfortunately, with this being the case, that means there's really almost 0 reason for someone to make the table turn-based (which also requires everyone present's vote for it) vs skipping the one person and getting free arena rank up.
I agree with the anonymous playing or name-hiding suggestion — and it'd be great if the start sound bug could be fixed too
I have dozens times been waiting for a game, had no progress bar, hit cancel, and gotten an error message that I was not waiting for a table of this game. Then i hit the (white, buggy) "cancel" button again and start waiting for a table. Fine.
Except that a few times, when i've done that, i've gotten en error message saying i was already at a table of that game, and did i want to go to it? Obviously, yes, OK, fine.
Except that twice now i have gotten a "you didn't finish this game" karma hit over what I presume is the same situation, only i didn't happen o get impatient and hit cancel and so didn't know i was in said game.
You should really be using some technology to detect that the player is actually at the table before penalizing them for not playing.
There are a lot of valid comments and good suggestions in this thread, I hope the admins of this site take note.
is it possible to take the alerts that happen when there are only 20 seconds left on the clock, and use them at the beginning of the game if there has been no action?
It happens frequently at the beginning of a game where someone sits idle for 2-4 minutes, and then when the 20 second warning comes up they switch from their other tab and play. Probably happens a couple times a week (I've also done that unfortunately).
The problem is that when you have the BGA tab in the background, it's easy to miss the initial alert that a game is starting.
Related problem: Why is expel the only option displayed atop the page? Why not display "Go turn-based" and "Abandon" also, instead of only the harshest option? It causes unnecessary feuds among the players, many of whom do not even realize the other two are options.
If I leave my screen up for a long time without doing anything, eventually it asks me if I'm still there. Similarly, at a bare minimum, in Arena mode, after a few minutes of waiting, before starting a game, it should ask if I'm still there and ready for Arena! ***No need to share information about the opponents before the "are you there?", that's not a reasonable excuse for not fixing this***. And give a reasonable amount of time to respond to the "are you there?" commensurate with how long the wait was for the game in the first place! (This also would be a good catch-all for avoiding harsh penalties because chimes were not working or there were glitches with games not actually opening automatically, which I have experienced.)
BGA this report has been open for more than 2 years and is still only yellow? Can anyone explain if the BGA devs are still active? Are they doing anything? Are we just whistling into the wind on these reports?
Soolina commented "problem is people are going to dismiss the game if they think players in the game wont suit their needs (like ELO or arena rank too low)" -- a better solution to this issue would be to hide the relevant information (player name, rank, etc.) prior to game start rather than skipping the ready up prompt as is currently done.
Fixing this problem - even if you cannot see ANYTHING ABOUT the opponent names - would be the absolute #1 fix I would recommend across BGA. I am seriously considering stopping with Arena solely due to this problem.
PLEASE add a confirm button for starting games in arena mode. If you're concerned about people leaving because of the opponent's name or elo, just remove it them from the display.
I think the reason there is no confirmation screen in arena mode is that you don't want players to cancel inconvenient matches. This could be avoided simply by having a confirmation screen that does not reveal the other players' names and rank.
The TB timer should not count down until both players have logged in and been active on the site after the game table has been made.
Add to this report
- Another table ID / move ID
- Did F5 solve the problem?
- Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use Imgur.com to upload it and copy/paste the link here.